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Piers Morgan Tonight

News/Business. (2013) Bail hearing for Oscar Pistorius; Alan Dershowitz.

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America 13, Britain 7, Angie 6, Australia 4, Marcia Clark 3, Mr. Lott 3, Us 3, Germany 3, Atf 2, Nra 2, Lott 2, Washington 2, Chantix 2, Biden 2, Nasal 2, Gunsillegally 1, Feinstein 1, John Lott 1, Ameritrade 1, United States Have 1,
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  CNN    Piers Morgan Tonight    News/Business.  (2013) Bail hearing  
   for Oscar Pistorius; Alan Dershowitz.  

    February 28, 2013
    12:00 - 12:59am PST  

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night. that is insecurity. >> food insecurity is a condition affecting 50 million americans. including 17 million children. people living on less than $5 a day. that is not much more than the cost of one oyster at his restaurant. it is hidden in plain sight. >> it doesn't look like what hunger looks like. it is hidden in plain sight. that was part of the reason why this film needed to be made. >> we think of hunger as a swell swollen belly. hunger in this country is the
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position of great anxiety and fear because you don't know how you are going to feed your kids. >> the 50-year-old celebrity chef and his wife are sounding the alarm with their new documentary, "a place at the table". they are not sure they are going to eat on any given day. the target audience for the film, lawmakers. the team say are failing america. >> tell them to fix this. fix this. >> do you think they can? >> your optimism is amazing. when we look at washington, they can't deal with the sequester and gun control, taxes. >> well, i'm hoping someone will want this. and yet if we are going to fix this problem, that may happen.
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>> tonight, i promised you i would stay on this and i meant it. guns in america. he said it will be okay dad. it is all going to be okay. and it wasn't okay. >> high emotions as the senate taking on the assault weapons ban. >> if you think we are going to do paperwork prosecutions you are wrong. >> graphic new testimony in the new trials. >> it was a mutual relationship sexually speaking wasn't it? >> yes, always. >> i'll stalk marcia clark. >> sand the ca axt and the cannibal k. and is this anyway to break the glass ceiling? >> good evening. the senate is locked and loaded tonight. guns.
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you know where i stand and i want to outlaw all guns, just the ones that are more at home in the army. here is one exchange between center lindsey graham and edward flynn. >> why aren't we prosecuting those that failed a background check? they aren't hard to understand. i'm a bit frustrated that we say one thing but in the real world we do nothing to enforce the laws on the books. >> i mean, for the record from my point of view. >> how many cases have you made? >> it doesn't matter. it is a paper thing. i want to finish the answer. i want to stop 76,000 people from buying gunsillegally. if you think we are going to do
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paperwork prosecutions you are wrong. >> joining me now is senator. feinstein. it seemed very emotional. >> it was very emotional and then dr. begg who was a trauma doctor who took care of some of the young people who talked with us about what these weapons do and how they tear apart small bodies and interesting confrontations between senator and a great and awesome chief of police i thought. really a cop's cop. who knew what it was like on the streets. i think this is one of the issues piers. people say i have an ar 15 and i
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take good care of it. i say no problem. when you have the dpreef grievance killer and when they are attracted to these weapons and when they can carry clips so big up to 100 rounds that no one can disarm them they can go out and slaughter people. when it happens to six-year-olds, it is time for this country to satisfy action. it is right to say weapons of war. weapons that are r are designed to kill people in close combat don't be long on the streets of our cities. >> i couldn't agree with you more. as you know. but there are critics out there that say no way is there going to be a new assault weapons ban. are you going to take that or do you believe there is a prospect of achieving this?
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>> i've been on a mission and been a mayor and walked onto crime scenes. i've seen police outgunned. crime scenes with these weapons isn't like it is on tv. there is blood and matter spread all over the place. people, their bodies get hacked apart. i think the time has come to say enough is enough. if i can win this i don't know. if the people of america stand up. every single poll taken. has shown that move than a majority of people want this assault weapons legislation passed. the nra is very heavy. they lobby heavy. members may be frightened. it is time to stand up and do what is right for this country. i want to play for u you what he said he is so simple in the way that he says what he says.
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>> it was 9:04 when i dropped jesse off. the school clock, jesse gave me a hug and a kiss at that time. he said good by, i love you. he stopped and said i love mom too. that was the last i saw of jesse. as he ducked around the corner. prior to that, when he was getting out of the truck he hugged me and held me. i can still feel that hug on the back. he said everything is going to be okay dad, it is all going to be okay. and it wasn't okay.
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>> i mean senator it is heart breaking listening to him but it makes me so angry he said he believes in the ii amendment and he believes in an american's right to defend themselves but he cannot understand why the aftermath to the killing of his son america is not racing to bring in control that stops further children from facing that kind of slaughter. >> that is right. everyone of those children had between 3 and 11 bullets in them. and the time has come. and america and the mothers and the fathers have to stand up and they have to say enough is enough. neil hessland is right. this child every dream lay ahead of him. and they are all gone. and you have these brave young
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women who went in there and put their arms out and protected them. is this the america we want to live in? it isn't the america want to live in it isn't the america i want to live in. >> this is wayne lapierre's remark. and so on and so on. pretty insulting and coming from a man who seems to me his sole purpose is try to guarantee that no controls are brought into prohibit the sale of guns. >> that is right. they oppose everything the atf to do their job. they have made it difficult to keep data. they have made it difficult to do proper research.
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also that manufactures of weapons can produce more. and then they press all of this. it is a gun culture. that culture is letting bad things happen. >> well, you are doing a fantastic job on this tonight. >> piers, thank you you have been wonderful thank you so much for your help. it is uphill all the way. thank you very much indeed. >> thank you. >> joining me now is william beg. he was in the emergency room on the day of the sandy hook massacre. thank you for coming back on the show. you showed everybody today how guns really work in the real work. i want to show a little part of what you did today. >> looks like we have a well placed hit. get that out of the way. there is the point of entry and
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it did not exit the block. there is the right side of the block it is turned upside down. we have a narrow channel where this came in i did notice it was half inch deep and a quarter inch wide. >> there is the point of impact didn't knock it off the table. not even close. see how that opened up? that is the story look at this massive cavity in this area. >> that is the difference between handguns and assault rifles. >> i think many people don't realize the difference between handgun injuries and assault rifle injuries. i wish i could have given more testimony. when it is an assault weapon's injury the bullet explodes inside the person's body.
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while it would be in appropriate to discuss the injuries related to the newtown children's injuries. when i go to symposiums every year and i talk about these things, yes, there is a huge difference between a handgun and an assault weapon's injury. >> i heard today vice president biden saying that he had seen material that was simply too strong for the american public to tolerate if they heard about it. when these kids were hit by 3 and 11 bullets they were creating holes the size of baseballs. let's spell this out. this is what this person did. >> people have regular handgun injuries most of them make it to
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the hospital and they have a chance. when they have assault rifle injuries they don't make it to the emergency room. >> referencing military experience even one or two of these injuries are horrific. they go inside the body and explode the tissue. to put out in society what happened with the 3 to 11 bullets per body would beyond decorum but it would paint the picture per vice president biden's comments i don't think we should sugar coat it. i think it has to be spoken loud and clear in washington where these cowardly politicians are worrying about their positions around and upsetting the nra. they need to be told in their
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faces what happened to these children. >> some of them were saying there was no real data. but there is data in the united kingdom and australia. in 1996 they had real legislation in australia and great britain. before that, australia had 12 mass murders in a 12 year period. it takes a few years to work but it absolutely works and that was the point that i was trying to get across today. >> you got it over and it is the reality check that people need. these are killing machines that belong in military scenario nothing to do with civilian life. >> i appreciate the time.
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>> thank you for joining us. there are millions screaming no gun control that it will make america less safe. joining me is mr. lott. you heard compelling testimony from neil hesslan and the doctor graphic detail on the hill today exactly what these weapons can do. is your belief still that the only answer to america's gun violence is more guns? >> well, i think we all want to try criminals from going and getting guns and the question is what is going to work and what is going to make the situation worse off. the doctor's discussion was moving but misleading. rather than classifying things as handguns versus assault weapons.
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if he wants to go and talk about hunting rifle that can do the same type of damage to use terms like assault weapons didn't add anything to the discussion. true ment weapons are designed not to kill people. they are designed to wound and have the bullet go through the body and the reason for that, is that we have learned that if you wound enemy soldiers you pin down many more of their troops to take care of their wounded comrades. >> mr. lott, how many of the children at sandy hook were wounded and not killed? >> obviously they were killed. i'm not sure what the point is going to be there. it took 20 minutes.
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>> the ar 15 that was used against them killed those children as it caused devastating damage to those poor little bodies 3 to 11 bullets each. and i'm told by experts that it cated holes the size of baseball bats that is why people want those weapons banned. >> rights of those children superseed any or right in america do they to you? >> look, piers would the wounds have been any different if they had used a hunting rifle that fired the same size bullets? would it have been any different? >> how many bullets can the raf average hunting rifle in a minute? >> the semiautomatic hunting rifles can fire the same number of bullets as your ar 15.
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because it is functionally the same as the semiautomatic rifle. >> the point of doing this is not just to annoy people like you. >> i have never argued that. >> no, your argument has been more guns less crime. >> but i have said based on the evidence from other countries that have brought in tough gun control that it is just not true. >> well, you made multiple points there. let's try to go through them the first one is pointing to magazines is somehow differring assault rifles. >> nobody huntsman has told me -- many people go hunting and none of them have said to me they need a high capacity magazine or ar 15 military rifle.
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you don't spray gun at deer so if you remove hunting from the equation what are you left with? >> there are two points here, one is these guns may look a certain way on the outside but they are the same as a hunting rifle. people use ar 15s to hunt for the same way they use hunting rifles to hunt. it is the same gun it just looks the same on the outside. you brought up many points i can find ten cases without trying too hardy i found them in december who fired more than ten shots to defend themselves in their homes.
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burglars had broken in. >> i'm aware there are some cases like that. >> i'm aware that there have been numerous mass shootings. i want to ask you how many dead bodies that have been shot by these ar 15s in your life because you are a guns expert. [ lisa ] my name's lisa, and chantix helped me quit. i honestly loved smoking, and i honestly didn't think i would ever quit. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. it put me at ease that you could smoke on the first week. [ male announcer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix.
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his fatal shot was in his forehead. it went in at his hairline and exited behind that. he looked that coward in his eyes. i didn't run and he didn't turn
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his back. that was the fatal shot that killed jesse. >> back now with john lott, junior. mr. lott do you know how many mass shootings there have been in the last 30 years? >> i have written papers on it. >> it is about 63. >> i think there are more than that. >> it may be as many as 65. >> mass shooting being more than four people being shot dead if we agree on the terminology. >> i think you are using the mother jones article. >> look. >> let me ask you a question? do you know what weapons were used in those shootings? >> yeah. everything from handguns to
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shunting rifles to what you would call assault rifles. >> the point is, there have been 71 semiautomatic handguns. 28 rifles 23 revolvers 21 handguns. of those 62 would be outlawed. it would be a specific campaign to try and remove from public use age the type of weapon being used to slaughter americans. what i don't understand of all the 35 proposals, president obama has put forward which ones would you actually agree with in terms of introducing more gun safety in america? >> before i will get to that question. i want to get to the points you were raising. that is not me. you look at the national academy
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of science in 46. they looked at all of the academic studies that had been done. you look at the studies funded by the clinton administration. they could not find evidence. >> let me give you some. >> you said what you said let me answer you. in 1996, as you know there was a her ren does mass shooting in us trail industrial australia. do you know how many shootings there have been since then? >> it depends on how you define them. do you know how many there have been since they brought in the ban? >> okay. do you now how many there have been in new zealand?
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>> you are going to say it is zero. >> how many have there been. >> i just said. >> how many have there been since 1996? >> you are going to let me talk for a second. >> answer the question. >> i have said. >> a couple of times i said the way you define it it is zero. >> just to clarify. >> no, sir. >> you agree with me in a country that brought in extensive gun control and gun bans following 18 mass shootings with 35 people slaughtered, there have been zero mass shootings. >> no, you have mate many factual state many ments let me respond. >> you are going to answer my questions and not those that suit your agenda. >> you will ask you this question it is important to your
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argument. >> you have spoken about 80% of the time since the break. >> i'm going to keep talking so i suggest that you keep quiet. indiana scotland children were slaughtered by a mass shooter as a result britain brought in handgun bans and other begans. how many shootings individual shootings have there been at britain schools since the bans were brought in? >> there was one before and there haven't been any after. >> i asked you one question. >> i answered the question. >> sir, i can i --
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>> zero, zero, zero, zero. not five, not ten. >> listen. look, i don't see what the point of having anybody on if you are going to talk for 90% of the time. >> sir. >> i'm trying to tell you as the man man. >> you are such a cherry picker. >> why am i on? >> they have seen zero mass shootings in one country. >> if you look. >> that is my point to you mr. lott. >> how about germany? it has stricter laws and up until newtown they had two of the three worst public school shooters. >> pardon? >> in the last ten years they had two. how many in the last ten years
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have been killed by guns in the last ten years. >> germany had -- >> how many people have money murdered in germany in the last ten year. >> you cited germany do you know the answer to the country that you raised? >> you changed the question. you bring up the thing about school shootings. >> 12,000 gun murders a year. >> what is the point of having anything on. >> here is the deal. you bring up school shootings and i respond and then you go on to something else without letting me finish. >> i ask you the questions. you are the man that wants to tell people. >> you want to talk 90% of the time. >> you haven't let me make a sentence. >> i have let you make many sentences here. you have talked most of the time both before and after the break. so let me try to deal with a couple of things. one of the things you have a
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hard time understanding is the difference between levels and changes okay. countries differ in terms of murder rates for many reasons if we take your german question about how many murder rates they have few murders. switzerland has less. they had lower murders before they had the gun control murders that they had. the murders in other countries have gone up after you have had bans put in place. >> you are quoting statistics that suit your agenda. >> you just asked me about germany. >> in the five year period in britain there was a spike. and in the last ate years in britain it has fallen.
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>> look, sir, first of all, it soared for the next 7 years and britain had an 18% increase in the number of police in the country at that point. es despite having 18% more place the murder rate is still higher now. why is it so high. >> how many people were murdered in brit continue ain with guns? >> you are citing the rate. >> it is about a third than what it is in the united states. >> don't be so utterly ridiculous. >> the murder rate -- >> how many people were murdered by guns in britain last year. >> it makes more sense to deal with rates. >> we are talking about guns. >> i don't memorize the number of murders. >> i'm talking about total murders so you don't care about the total number of people who
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die? >> how many people in 2011 were killed with guns. 18,000 killed themselves with guns. 100,000 were hit with gun fire. mr. lott. >> do you know that 78% in the counties in the united states have 0% of murders. where do you think the gun ownership is heaviest in the 78% of the counties that have zero murders? >> do you believe in universal background checks? >> in theory if you could fix the system that would be great. 95% of those who are deny ied are false positives.
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it is people with mistakes in the system because it is someone who has a similar name. it is like ted kennedy having a same name. when you are talking about 1.7 million national denials you are talking about a significant if small number of people who are being threatened or need to get a gun to save their lives. >> and the final question before we go, of the 35 propose als to gun safety, how many of the 35 to you support. >> i don't think i supported any of the ones that he had. >> a lot of them weren't real proposals. sure, i think there should be a head of the atf. he has let a nomination lag for years without appointing somebody.
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that is one thing that i think would be useful to do. having people go and study certain issues are fine. but most of those things weren't serious things that would solve anything. >> i have five kids. i can't imagine losing any of them for any reason but you need to do is have shows about people who save their lives like these ten cases in this last month of december where people had to fire multiple shots in order to save lives. >> mr. lott thank you for joining me again. i look forward to talking to you again about this as you know. i disagree with you passionate passionately. coming up i'll talk with america's two top attorneys. des
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come in today and save up to 20% on a kitchen from ikea. let's begin with the host of jane velez-mitchell. did we learn anything new?
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>> this was a triple x-rated day in court. she says she killed her ex-lover in self defense. but today the prosecutor turned the table and made a strong case that she is the one who sexually corrupted him. he produced text messages that she sent to him where she said i want to bleep you like a dirty horny school girl. she expresses a interest in wanting a spanking and expressed an interest in anal sex, the very activity that she had expected previously as degrading.
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>> she has a bare faced way that she lies and doesn't seem to be phased when she is found out and contradicts herself. >> she has been in consistent about her own lies and to xwha she said to "48 hours" and to what she said to "inside edition". so i'm not sure that she recognizes what the truth is. and the jury is going to have to figure out what the truth is based on someone who is an amitted killer and liar and yet claims self defense. >> if you ever heard of a case like this? >> never. and i'm asking myself.
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what is the point of the defense? >> having all of this sex and lies and text and e-mails and so forth. what is the point? the only point that i can think of is that maybe they are trying to have her up there for so many days that they know her and like her and wouldn't want to put her to death. whether they like her is another issue but at least they know her. >> jane, she has cleverly been playing the jury today looking at them trying to exsued a different demeanor and in previous days she has been weepy. she is playing a casey anthony attitude in this courtroom. >> a different jodi shows up every day. sometimes she is weepy, she is wearing these glasses to read she takes them off and she are for show.
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>> i spoke with a friend and he visits her in jail and she according to him flat out predicts she will not get the death penalty and the second time around she is going to get manslaughter ter and skate on this and so she is extremely confident. >> i was at a dinner party where it was the only subject of conversation. >> this woman is no longer the bleached blond and the heavily made up woman and no longer the person who says she is the dirty little school girl. she is the meek person whose hair is closed in on her face and quiet and withdrawn and answers and not getting rattled
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by the prosecutor. >> it is a fascinating and compelling trial. thank you both very much. when we come back. more on the trial. and the cannibal cop.
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it is the murder trial that everyone is talking about. jodi arias is accused of killing her boyfriend. let's bring in marcia clark. they come together now with the magic of television. we spoke about this case it is sinister in parts and lurid in others. you are left with this odd woman who appears to be a very, very large camille eleon? >> i think they are focusing on whether or not she initiated the kinky sex. it sounds like she was entitled to kill him if she was pressured into having sex.
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the evidence is overwhelming that she premeditated the death. she put gas in the car. she obviously stole a gun, planning to kill him. why don't they focus on the facts of the case rather than the lurid sex which bears no relation to the self defense or whether or not she deserves the death penalty? >> marcia clark do you see a point to what is going on in this courtroom? >> i do. she is a liar. she has made herself out to be a victim. one of the ways she said he was abusive was sexually. to the extent that the prosecution can show, that he didn't make you. you have been sending him nast ti texts.
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they have showed her to be a layer on liar on the stand. why do you have to do that? she is a liar based on the information she gave three different times based on how the killing occurred. why introduce sex into this? it diverts the jury's attention away from the facts of the case. less is more. when it come to sex. people don't necessarily lie, they miss remember and a jury lay say, yeah, i wanted to do it. why allow a jury to speculate about the sex part of it. why not focus on the lies that are central to the facts in this case? >> let's take a break and we have another case the cannibal cop in new york.
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in the case of the cannibal
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cop, i have to warn you about graphic details we're about to discuss with the new york city police officer wanting to kidnap, rape and kill dozens of women, including his wife. let me read the excerpts of e-mails from gilberto. i want to cook a girl alive on an open fire. i would cook her at 160 degrees. she will absolutely suffer. all of this is utterly horrific to the average individual. then you read a conversation to one of his co-fetishes. no, i'm just talking fantasy. no matter what i say, it's make believe. i just like to get a little dirty with the ideas. if you take him at face value in those private conversations he was having with fetishists, however ghastly the earlier material i read, is he a criminal? >> absolutely not.
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he is not a conspirator. it is not a crime to intend. it is not a crime to plan. it is only a crime to agree with another person. that's what he's charged with conspiracy. now, he's a criminal because he broke into computers, but the only two possible ways they could get him for anything relating to murder is conspiracy to murder or attempted murder. this is not an attempted murder. he didn't come close. he didn't have the victim, he didn't take the final step. so it requires for conspiracy to be in agreement. they have to find another person, not only who he spoke to and fantasized with, but who agreed with him to a specific criminal act. they haven't shown that so far. so my prediction is the jury is going to convict him and it's going to be reversed on appeal. >> it's quite interesting, marshall, because in other e-mails, he referred to having a van in the mountains at a house big enough to cook a woman. officers never found a van or a house, which makes me think he's making this up for another
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kinky, fetishist reason. you guys are lawyers. you can rise above the fray here and make an honest legal assessment of this, which alan just did very clefrl verly. but people on the jury would be so repulsed, so revoltd bid this guy, they may convict him on that alone. >> that's the point alan was making as well, and correct. when you look at it from a legal principle, and purely that, you say, listen, we don't have thought police, and you don't punish someone for having thoughts. there's something clearly wrong with boyfriend, he's not clear in the head, but it's not a criminal act until you get to conspiracy. this would be a perfect trial to waive a jury and have a court trial. you want the judge to look at it passionately and say the evidence is not fulfilled.
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that's why alan is right. it will be reversed on appeal for insufficiency of evidence. that is a double jeopardy claim. it will be dismissed forever. unless they pull it together. if alan's prediction is they need someone to agree with, if they have that person, he will go down for conspiracy. >> it's a riveting case, as is the other one. one thing is for sure, alan, you will be back to discuss this again. we will be talking about this, i think, for some considerable time, so please come back, both of you. thanks so much. that's all for us. 
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